Tuesday, March 3, 2009

PPI/ Riverchasers recap

Lots of fun last night. I never do this but my bust out hand left me feeling quite ghey. I never really invest this much time and reflection on online tourneys. I just don't see the point. But with the BBT just starting I want to be sure that I am giving myself as many chances as possible.

The bust out hand came after the first break. I had just under $4k and was in the small blind. Nzgreen was in the BB and had me covered but not by much.

I was grinding the whole way and felt it necessary to start picking up pots, but not so much that would just play reckless. Just a thought that occured to me. "you need to start picking up pots".

I was dealt TT in the sb and it folded around to me. I standard betted it to 240. I think the blinds were 40/80. (I wish I saved the HH, but again, I never do this).

NZ reraised to 1,000. Now, he has just about T2900 after that raise, and I am pretty sure he is making a move here. I don't think he has J3, but I'm fairly certain he has a less than premium hand which should be foldable if I jam even if he is getting 2.5 to 1 to call. This still is a tournament, and he would be crippled if he lost.

I didn't want to jam, but I had a hand, and any reraise commits me. So I did. Jam that is. He just about insta called with KQ. River brought a Q and IGH.

What I thought about was, is just calling an acceptable move there. Is it a better move? Again, I thought any two over cards, minus AK or maybe AQ call, but I don't mind racing. But I was disappointed to be called by KQ.

He had a stack left after his raise. I don't understand why he would ship it with just KQ. I played rather tight the whole tourney seeing less than 7% of my hands. I think you have to be aware of that fact and understand that a player is very rarely going to play so tight, and try to resteal with a shove after an hour or so of folding.

I'm not complaining either. Anyone is allowed to call with anything. My question resides in the thought of "is just flatting there worse than shipping it?"

Discuss

18 comments:

SirFWALGMan said...

NZGreen I love that guy! His MO is jamming KQ/KJ type hands. It is just how he plays. I am ok with you jamming there. Gotta win a race to win an MTT. Period.

Astin said...

Sounds like a good place for a stop-and-go.

Mondogarage said...

Astin's right, but I'd rather stop and go with JJ than TT, because he could be raising with AJ or KJ.

Shipping is worse than a flat call here (imho), because unless you're going to shove any flop, you're likely check/folding to any flop pain.

The real problem I see there with the flat call is that you still haven't really put him on any range. In this case, NZGreen simply got paid off on a pretty marginal call, but the 4-bet shove here is better than a call.

Julius_Goat said...

I don't call there. You are not RE-re stealing with air, and KQ is pretty sad against the range that is shoving. Maybe he put you on the hammer.

I also have never won an MTT over 180 people.

Why are you asking me again?

Alan aka RecessRampage said...

This hand's not even worth asking, IMO. Stop N Go? Yeah, ok. Are you willing to go on any board with an overcard? Don't be too afraid of the races. You got it in good and really, this is a spot where you wanna double up, not add 33% to your stack or whatever.

Wait, scratch all that. I just reread your post. Is the blind right? 40/80? And you have 4k stack and you're thinking you need to start picking up pots? Now that I'm looking at that, the play seems really reckless by the KQ guy. I mean you guys both have like 50+BBs and he's getting it in with KQ? he's an idiot.

And stop n go seems better with a lower pair, not a higher pair. You're jamming a board where it's unlikely that it hit someone. If you can get called by hands like AJ and KJ, why wouldn't you want to get it in pre with JJ?

F*ck, I'm starting to tilt just thinking about the hands and reading comments. Stop posting poker hands!!!

Don't be Fuel. :)

Btw, you got my email addy? Let me know if you already have exact dates on when you are going to Vancouver.

Shrike said...

You got money in as a big favourite. You should welcome the action from a player who made an awful decision.

-PL

Wolfshead said...

At first I was going to say the stop and go sounds good there but that's in hindsight so that the shove was better but more I think about it, while the shove is still acceptable, I think the stop and go is better unless you feel he is just making a play. Reasoning is that, since you don't plan to lay down to his reraise, if he is repopping with an overpair you're just hoping anyway where as if you feel he's capable of reraising with a wide range you have the option of shipping it after the flop and forcing him to back off if you don't feel he could have improved. I know, me giving my thoughts on poker to Riggs is like teaching your grandmother to suck eggs but you asked for it and you got it.

BTW, it amazes me the number of people who feel K-Q is a hand worthy of risking your tourney life on but they are out there in droves.

HighOnPoker said...

Don't overthink it, Riggs. You played the hand well. You thought you were ahead and got your money in good. He just as easily could've committed all of his chips preflop with an underpair like 99, 88, etc., and you were willing to face a cointoss to AK or AQ, so the fact that he actually had KQ makes no difference. A coin toss is a coin toss.

smokkee said...

it seems a little early IMO to ship with KQ at that point but, it is a blind vs. blind battle. he probably thought he was ahead of your range in that spot or coin flipping at worst.

after getting almost 25% of his stack in there pf, i don't think he should fold. at least i wouldn't ship a quarter of my stack in then fold to a shove. that would be pretty bad IMO.

corron10 said...

i got knocked out by KQ too... seems to happen to the best players....

Riggstad said...

I dismissed the stop n go once he made his raise. as smokkee stated, any fold from there would be pretty bad, and calling the raise, check folding any flop would be just horrid on my part.

I don't think I can fold to his raise as I def put him on a move. HOP put it right about the fact that I was willing to race and I did just that. I'm just fat and slow, and lost.

Thanks for the comments everyone

lightning36 said...

People lose to K-Q, but making that move with that many chips with blinds so small? Sorry to see you go out on a play like that, Riggs.

Wolfshead said...

Just one more comment. I'm not looking at the stop n go here as a way for you to possibly get out from under with a bad flop, for you, but as a possible tool to push him off after. I figured that if you were committed to going by doing it in two parts you put him to a decision post if he isn't already playing a big hand. As you said about bet size the other day, some people will call of 2/4 of their stack yet will stop and think about that extra quarter when it's shoved so will some folks be willing to call off their stack when there are 5 cards to come yet start thinking about it when there are only 2 left to play. Just a thought. As I said, either way is playable

Wolfshead said...

Just one more comment. I'm not looking at the stop n go here as a way for you to possibly get out from under with a bad flop, for you, but as a possible tool to push him off after. I figured that if you were committed to going by doing it in two parts you put him to a decision post if he isn't already playing a big hand. As you said about bet size the other day, some people will call of 2/4 of their stack yet will stop and think about that extra quarter when it's shoved so will some folks be willing to call off their stack when there are 5 cards to come yet start thinking about it when there are only 2 left to play. Just a thought. As I said, either way is playable

nzgreen said...

Just to clarify - blinds were 60/120, 28BBs effective...

I've been analysing this hand too. At the time I thought my hand had sufficient equity *against your range* to call.

Turns out it probably didn't but it was very close.

Riggstad said...

ya, I knew I was off on those blinds, but I don't think it made that much of a difference.

Being our little battles over the last few weeks you certainly can assume a fairly wide range. Not to mention it was a blind battle.

I have zero probelm with your call. And really not too much disappointment with the result of the hand. I chose to race.

My only question was what does a call do for me, and would it be a better play. Given the circumstances I don't think there would have been a choice.

Because of the A hitting the flop (if it even did, it may have come on the turn), I think there's a slight maybe you get off when I shove, but who knows. I like playing against you green. The rest of the way will be fun.

Riggstad said...

ya, I knew I was off on those blinds, but I don't think it made that much of a difference.

Being our little battles over the last few weeks you certainly can assume a fairly wide range. Not to mention it was a blind battle.

I have zero probelm with your call. And really not too much disappointment with the result of the hand. I chose to race.

My only question was what does a call do for me, and would it be a better play. Given the circumstances I don't think there would have been a choice.

Because of the A hitting the flop (if it even did, it may have come on the turn), I think there's a slight maybe you get off when I shove, but who knows. I like playing against you green. The rest of the way will be fun.

Bayne_S said...

Problem with calling is you don't have odds to set mine and NZGreen easily has a blackjack 20.

Odds of overcard hitting on flop are ~70% so you are usually doing stop n go with an over.

Shove, flip, next tourney.